Masters All-American & Attorney on Swimming, Law, and Life: Denise Letendre, EP 230

Transcript

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Welcome to the award-winning champions mojo, hosted by two world record holding athletes.

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Be inspired as you listen to conversations with champions and now your host, kelly Palace and Maria Parker.

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Hello friends, welcome to the champions mojo podcast.

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I am your host, kelly Palace, and, as usual, I am with my co-host, maria Parker.

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Hey, maria Kelly, it's great to be with you here today.

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Yes, and Maria, this is a special edition of champions mojo from the pool deck and we have a great interview for you today.

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It's brief, it's short, but it's powerful, yeah and we.

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I wasn't there, but I was able to listen to the interview and some great takeaways.

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Yeah, we hope you'll stick around and catch the takeaways.

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And here we go.

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We are here for an on deck inspiration with Denise Latender.

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Denise is a lifelong swimmer and part of a swimming family.

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Her parents actually met through master swimming.

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Denise swam collegiately at Rutgers.

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She went on to University of Virginia law school and is a practicing attorney in Richmond, virginia.

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She's a ten time US master swimming, all-american 30 time Virginia LMSC record holder and an avid open water swimmer.

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Denise, welcome to champions mojo.

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Thanks so much for having me excited to be here.

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Yes, so we are on a little different on deck this time.

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Usually I do on deck inspiration after swim meets, but we have just done a swim practice together.

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Yeah, we're at the beautiful facility swim RVA and one thing I noticed as Mark and I are visiting here is every time I come here, denise is the only woman swimming with all the young fast guys.

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There are like three full lanes and Denise is representing the woman.

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How is your training with this swim RVA group?

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I absolutely love it.

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We've got a great group that just loves having fun, training hard, and I love training with men because it's just it's a challenge, trying to run them down and Just a lot of fun, yeah, and I can tell what great camaraderie you guys have.

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it's been fun.

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I'm not quite as fast as you on over in the the slower part of that fast group, but it's fun and I know J Paluso is the coach here and he's doing a great job.

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Tell us a little bit about your background with open water.

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Sure, yeah, I did my first open water race at nine years old and didn't really love it and so didn't really do open water until I moved here and a bunch of people I swam with in the pool were doing an open water race and I thought what, all right, I'll give it a try.

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And then there's a great group in Richmond that does a lot of open water swimming just in the James River and then travels together, races together, and so I got involved in that group and I have done to 10 mile open water races, which pales in the comparison to what many of the people in this group do.

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They do even much longer swims and that.

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But it's just been a great way to shift from pool swimming and I'm somebody who can get really caught up sometimes in pool times and how well I'm doing compared to how I used to do, and open water really gives you a freedom to let go of that and just race and enjoy being one with the water.

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I do the same race every year, but conditions are different, currents are different, so you can't really compare times from year to year, which definitely has given me a freedom to just have fun with it a little bit more.

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I love that.

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And a lot of people only do pool swimming, like I do.

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A lot of people only do open water, but that balance is so great.

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So let's circle back to your group, and one thing I have noticed is you guys are young, you're professional.

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A lot of people just get out of here and then when you're walking out, I always joke in the locker room with you that I look like a homeless person and you look like you're going into court as an attorney.

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You've obviously been disciplined to be such a great swimmer and to get your law degree, and now you're a practicing lawyer.

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So can you give us some insight into how those two have meshed for you?

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Definitely.

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So I think, like you said, the discipline definitely bleeds over.

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Even law school for me was actually.

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It was challenging, but from a time management aspect, I never had a pool and all nighter like other people, because I didn't have to do 20 hours of swimming a week.

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I had so much more freedom in my schedule, sometimes just the perseverance of when I have a tough brief to write at work or case to prep for, just being able to buckle down and really push through.

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That is something I take away from swimming and carry that over into my law career, for sure.

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And what kind of law are you doing?

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So I work for a local government doing their non-criminal work.

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So I do some employment laws, some environmental and then social services, foster care cases Cool, very nice.

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So, besides, obviously, discipline, which is something that we all have to come to practice at 6 am, what would you say are some traits that you use to be such a champion or that you like in other champions that you want?

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Yeah, I would say one thing that I've really taken away from my master's swimming career versus my competitive swimming career is an open war actually helped with this too, sort of letting go of expectations and just throwing out there what I have and seeing where the chips fall, and that actually leads over into my law career as well.

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Growing up I was very much a hard worker in practice and when I was nine years old I was at our zone meet and I told my mom I said I saw that there was a podium.

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It was the first me I'd been to that had a podium and I told my mom I'm going to get up and get on that podium and she was like, oh, I was ranked like a 35th in my race or something and I got up there and I got seventh.

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I got to be on the podium and throughout my early swimming career I was able to do that just work hard, get results, and everything was great.

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And then I hit a plateau in high school where that sort of no longer was working.

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I was working really hard in the pool, wasn't getting the results I wanted, and other people I'd be like I'm working harder than them, why are they being me in meets?

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And it was a cause of a lot of frustration for me and that carried over a bit in college.

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Ironically, my best season was one where I was sick for a good portion of the season with a lung infection and couldn't really train much, and so that season didn't train much, had the best performance of my life, and so coming into masters, life gets in the way you train as well as you can, but it's definitely not as disciplined as growing up or college swimming, and so I really had to let go of expectations and just get in there, throw out the best I have and see what happens, and that's been very freeing for me to be able to do that, and sometimes it works out and I'm surprised with how well I do.

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Other times it doesn't and I'm like, oh gosh, that was really slow.

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No, it's disappointing.

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That has carried over into my law career, because I think one thing that people don't realize about law because it's very different on TV shows is, as a lawyer, what you do is important, but there are so many other factors that control outcomes.

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So, for example, you could have a case where you have great facts but the law really isn't on your side.

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You can have a case where the laws on your side but your facts aren't great.

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You could have a case where a judge has already decided what they think on this issue, regardless of what you say.

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You could have a case where you should win, but you have a witness who's really unlikable or a client who's really unlikable, and so you have to let go of those things and just throw your best out there, prepare as well as you can and see where the chips fall.

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I've had cases where I really feel like I did a great job and I should have won, that I didn't win, and other cases where I was surprised I won, like in my master swimming career.

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The swimming part has really taught me you control the control bowls and you let go of the rest because you don't know what your competitors are going to do.

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Sometimes for me, I don't even know where my body will do that.

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Yeah, I love it.

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That is really, really excellent.

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One of the things that we were talking about before we started recording, which I love, is the idea that you've been number one 10 times in different events throughout US master swimming, which is all American.

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When you're number one in an event, you get that all American status, which is the highest award that you can get.

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And then you've been number two 28 times.

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Yes, actually 25, I think, oh yeah 25.

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So what does that mean to you and how do you relegate that in your mind?

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It's frustrating at times because you want to be that number one, but what I found is that's taught me to just swim every event you can in a year because you don't know who else is going to compete.

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A lot of times the events I've gotten number one in aren't always my best events or even what I thought was my best performance that year.

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But the way master swimming works is you race to shows up that year and who decides to swim those events.

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So again it's back to this mindset of you just throw out what you have and see where things fall.

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And there are races that I thought were fantastic and deserve that number one accolade that I didn't get in.

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And then there are other races where I thought, oh, I wasn't that good and I got that number one accolade.

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So just really trying to do your best in everything you can and it evens out in the end.

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Isn't that the truth that's so beautiful.

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What would you say?

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The biggest obstacle that you've overcome in your life is In your young life.

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Yeah, how old were you.

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I'm 35.

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35,.

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Okay, I had too many, I think.

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Definitely in my swimming career in college I had two years my sophomore year and my junior year, where I had unexplained illnesses, where I couldn't train the way I wanted, or sophomore and senior year.

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My sophomore year was the year I talked about where it really worked out great.

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I ended up having the best season of my life and it was like awesome.

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And then senior year I think I probably had overtraining syndrome.

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When Simone Manuel talked about what happened to her.

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I very much related to it.

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I suddenly just couldn't make intervals, just was tired all the time, had a lot of muscle fatigue, muscle aches, joint pain, these unexplained symptoms.

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And that year, yeah, I really couldn't train and I was very nervous going into our championship meet of how is this going to turn out.

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Am I going to embarrass myself Because previous years I'd made the A final at our conference meet and been really competitive?

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And it was such a wonderful growth experience for me because I went into that meet with that mentality of all right, I have no idea how this is going to turn out.

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And I ended up getting 16th in my best event, the 4 Heart.

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I Am and was competing in the consolation final and that was such a joyful experience for me because I was able to score points for my team, or I guess a point, push my team and have that be my last collegiate swim.

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And I saw my fellow senior teammates be very frustrated with their last swims or they had high expectations for it and they didn't swim as well as they wanted and they were devastated.

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And I just felt really lucky to be able to have such a beautiful experience to end my college career, despite the results not being anywhere near what I would have expected at the beginning of that season, and it really dialed in for me the importance of the sport and just the joy of the sport.

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Yeah, so, speaking of the joy of the sport, where do you see your master's swimming career in 10, 20, 30 years, or do you?

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Definitely this is a lifelong sport for me.

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You said in the intro my parents met through master swimming.

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They're both active master swimmers.

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My sister is a master swimmer.

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We all competed at Nationals last summer when it was in Richmond as a family, which was a lot of fun.

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I just got married a month ago and there may be children in the future which will throw a wrench in things for a handful of years, although I will say my mom completed a 400.

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I am in a meet about three weeks before I was born.

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There you go.

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No wonder you're a 400, I am.

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I feel like I'm going to have to do at least that, even when I have children.

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But definitely master swimming is my community and so being at the pool day in and day out with my closest friends, I can't see living a life without that.

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And while my competitive career may have to take a little bit of a back seat if I have children in the picture, that aspect I know I will prioritize and that won't, and then I definitely hope to be back being more competitive after that.

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And Kelly, unfortunately you've made those LMSC records really tough.

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I was older age group.

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I plan to be competing as long as I can, very good, okay.

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Second to last question Is there anything that I have not asked you that you'd like to share with our listeners?

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Just encouraging.

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I came out of college swimming and did masters pretty quickly after college swimming.

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My first nationals was two years after I graduated and all of my college teammates are not doing swimming anymore.

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Some of them are starting to get back into it.

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I would just really encourage swimmers who are coming off college to really give masters a try, because it has given me the community that I loved so much in high school and college, of those folks you come together with and you train hard with and you have fun with.

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And I think when you leave college and you move into the working world, it's really tough because you don't have those people who understand you and understand that mindset.

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You can go join a social club or a kickball team or something, but those people don't necessarily have the same mindset.

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And not that you can't have friends in that realm too, but having that group has been such a blessing in my life.

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And even if you don't want to compete, that's okay.

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Just join a group to get together.

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And I know, coming out starting my career as a lawyer, you have no idea what you're doing and it can be very stressful, and being able to come to a pool and do something I'm good at, felt good, just being able to get in the water and feel comfortable and know this is my thing.

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I've still got something here.

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Even though the rest of my life I'm confused and lost, I've still got this anchoring me.

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So I would just encourage those graduates to mentally separate, because I know being a college swimmer high school swimmer can be stressful and there are a lot of negative experiences you may have had.

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And just given a chance because it can be a very different experience and a beautiful one as a master swimmer.

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I love the way you articulated that and I think I'm going to just have to save this clip and play it everywhere, because my pet peeve is when I hear college swimmers say they're retiring.

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No, you never should retire from swimming.

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I'd like to start a hashtag Swim Forever Hashtag pause your swimming, but don't ever stop swimming, Like when people announce their retirement from swimming.

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It makes me laugh Really.

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You're never going to swim, Right?

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So I love it that you were one of those youngins that went straight into, and what you've said just are all the reasons that people should do it.

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Okay, the very last question is a spiritual question, and that is just when you dive in the water, not thinking of stroke technique and all that, but just what goes through your mind when you hit that water, Depending on the water temperature Sometimes yeah right.

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But one thing I'm going to twist your question a little bit because this is something I wanted to touch on but did.

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Sure, open water swimming for me is such a spiritual experience.

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I find that when I get in a body of water, the first 15, 20 minutes my brain is like freaking out, like, oh, I don't feel good.

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Oh, this war is cold, this war is hot.

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How much further do we have?

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Oh, and then about 15, 20 minutes in my brain can just shut off and I enter this Zen state where I can just be in a flow state, not really think about anything, but feel pretty calm and it's almost like my arms and legs are moving independent of my brain, and it is such a beautiful thing.

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And to be just in the quiet and the sun and surrounded by nature is such a beautiful experience.

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I really I feel close to a higher power while doing it.

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And just I love swimming in a groove too.

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Sometimes you can get in a groove with somebody next to you and be stroked for stroke and it's just that.

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Synchronicity is just a really incredible feeling.

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That in the pool, turns break things up, sets break things up.

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But while I really enjoy that, I find for just a mental and spiritual experience.

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Open water really gives that to me.

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Yeah, so Zen flow love it.

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Denise, thank you so much for being with us today.

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It was awesome, and I guess we will see you at practice on Monday.

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Yeah, Awesome, All right thanks so much.

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Stay tuned for the takeaways.

00:18:12.289 --> 00:18:12.770
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00:19:01.349 --> 00:19:02.915
And now the takeaways.

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Okay, maria Denise Latender, attorney, star swimmer.

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Just what a great interview.

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So much there.

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What was your first takeaway?

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I agreed with almost everything that came out of her mouth, but I loved one of the things.

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I loved that she said was talking about there are things you can control and things you can't, and I think as really disciplined people, we can get all bunched up about our performance.

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But she said that she learned that you just throw it all out there.

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You do what you can, you prepare as best you can, then you just throw it out all out there, do your best and you're happy with whatever comes up, Because we don't know, like that day, who's gonna be there, what the water temperature's gonna be like, what the and you can just you can get really, I think, negative if you dwell on that.

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Her theory is you just throw it out there and do the best you can.

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I think that's really helpful in any event, that you do, you prepare as well as you can and then you just throw it all out there.

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I like that phrase.

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How about you yes, yes, I like that too and control the controllables.

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I think she said yeah, exactly, yeah really great.

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My first one was the time management thing that she said law school wasn't hard for her, I think.

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Because she knew how to time manage from swimming, from being a division one swimmer and never had to pull in all nighter.

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So I really liked that.

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Part of what we get as swimmers is that time management piece that other people may not.

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We may take that for granted as swimmers, but I love that she realized that.

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Yeah, yeah, and she could enjoy.

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I guess we can all enjoy the rest of our lives more because we have those.

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We bring that discipline over into everything that we do.

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Yeah, that's great.

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My second takeaway was I loved how she talked about open water swimming and I've experienced this as well in anything, but particularly in swimming.

00:20:54.910 --> 00:21:13.734
The first few minutes you're in the water you're hyperventilating a little bit, maybe you're getting the feel of the water, maybe it's cold, maybe it's high, there's people around you, but then after a few minutes you just get into the beauty of it, the zen of it, the nature, sometimes swimming in synchrony with somebody right next to you.

00:21:13.734 --> 00:21:16.238
And I experienced the same thing in running and encycling.

00:21:16.238 --> 00:21:32.279
You know you have to remember that if you're in the beginning it's always hard to start, but once you get past that, it's so beautiful and such a privilege to be able to swim in open water and lakes and rivers and ocean and to just feel, be at one with the water and nature.

00:21:32.279 --> 00:21:35.537
I thought that was beautiful and I wanna remember what a privilege that is.

00:21:37.001 --> 00:21:38.226
Yes, I did that a lot.

00:21:38.226 --> 00:21:48.526
This is an open water and, like you said a little bit, even you could extrapolate that to cycling or a run or a run in the rain or a cycle when it's really windy.

00:21:48.526 --> 00:22:09.431
You have to break through that first discomfort of whatever is going to get you to the other side of that, and you and I always say that one of the ways we get ourselves to work out is to say we're going to think about how it feels when it's over, so my second one is that this is my new hobby horse, which is don't retire from swimming.

00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:34.392
And I absolutely loved and I said it the way Denise articulated that when swimmers are swimming a lot and they come out of a heavy schedule of swimming, whether that's oh, I'm going to quit after high school, or I'm going to quit after two years of college, or I'm going to quit after college or I'm going to quit after a pro career or whatever, they announced this big retirement and Denise never really retired.

00:22:34.392 --> 00:22:46.991
She just went straight from college swimming into master swimming and she said it gave her a sense of community and we all need that and you have that place that you can go and it's something you know how to do.

00:22:46.991 --> 00:22:56.900
You know what's expected and when you're out in the world, in the workforce or trying to raise a family or doing something unfamiliar, you have that familiar ground of the swimming community.

00:22:56.900 --> 00:23:05.205
So it just went right along with my new thing Don't ever say that you're going to retire from swimming, Just maybe take a break, maybe take a pause.

00:23:05.205 --> 00:23:07.070
But swimming should be a lifelong sport.

00:23:07.760 --> 00:23:15.292
I really love that too, and I think that swimmers take for granted that community that they have throughout their swimming career.

00:23:15.292 --> 00:23:20.131
And you know, when I was in law school it was so good to get back in the water and do something that I was good at.

00:23:20.131 --> 00:23:35.394
But beyond that just the familiarity, the friends, I think maybe even you know more than any other individual sport, certainly more than cycling or running that community that you have in swimming is an amazing thing that you can't take for granted and should embrace your whole life.

00:23:35.394 --> 00:23:36.705
Yes, I love it.

00:23:36.961 --> 00:23:37.986
Yes, I love it.

00:23:37.986 --> 00:23:39.425
That was a great interview.

00:23:39.425 --> 00:23:41.267
So happy we got Denise on the show.

00:23:41.267 --> 00:23:44.205
Maria, thanks for being with me on another good one.

00:23:44.205 --> 00:23:47.882
I love you, love you too, kelly, bye-bye, bye-bye.

00:23:49.660 --> 00:23:52.670
Thank you for listening to the Champions Mojo podcast.

00:23:52.670 --> 00:23:53.984
Did you enjoy the show?

00:23:53.984 --> 00:24:00.826
We'd be grateful if you would leave us a five-star review on iTunes to help others find us, and we'd also love to hear from you.

00:24:00.826 --> 00:24:05.388
We're on all social media platforms or you can reach us at championsmojocom.

Masters All-American & Attorney on Swimming, Law, and Life: Denise Letendre, EP 230

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